Modern Tactics 4 Demo

So, you can already guess the demo is not ready. There is no point in uploading what I have now. Its not enough to call a demo.

But by this Sunday the demo should be ready. It'll be pretty basic, just one level right now but you will get a good feel for the game.

More to come this Sunday.

127 Comments

Posted on Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 11:03am by lautan

by nepazistamas @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 12:05pm

i knew it ;D also, FIRST!!!

by AtomDragon @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 12:26pm

why do you ALWAYS have the demo/beta when i'm at my dad's?!? AAAGH!

Oh well

by destructopoo @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 1:06pm

Thank god. I would've beat you with a stick if you released it early :D

by swallowdanut420 @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 5:05pm

damn jews

by Lime @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 5:23pm

I don't see how the Jewish people have anything to do with MT4. Or TTP, for that matter.

by l4stspartan @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 6:42pm

cool cant wait to see the work in process, also someone wanna kill off swallow's account?

by l4stspartan @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 6:50pm

also a thought (although it doesnt matter if its not put in, kinda late notice) but what about after you shoot or something you should be aloud a second move, like 1-2 spaces so you can get in cover after shooting, nothing worse than needing to rush at 3 snipers around the corner your at. but yeah just like a "tactical movement" maybe i would enjoy that if you could manage to get it in.

by TehGuest @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 6:56pm

Meh, I wouldn't like to see that in. Maybe if it was like KT2s "flee" ability. Thats nice and not overpowered (well, maybe the heal is)

by drago9876 @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 6:58pm

lol Atom Dragon you should go to your dad's more often... btw hope the MT4 gives a good and nice idea to the game, wondering how much guns/ attachments are in the demo so far. Also, take your time lautan, I'd rather have a game creator take their time to make an awesome game, than someone who would just rush it through

by Lime @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 7:11pm

I'm fine with however long it takes, as long as you don't rush it and release a glitch-infested game.

by TehGuest @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 7:58pm

Also, WHO CALLED IT?!
I told you he would release the demo closer to the weekend!
TG:1 Everyone else:0

by chuggaconroy @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 8:50pm

nice

by Vuther @ Mar Wed 31, 2010 @ 11:06pm

Can't wait! Must build time machine!

by destructopoo @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 12:46am

bury yourself in the snow like in south park :D

by nepazistamas @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 3:14am

tehguest, sunday is almost next week. and im sure that sunday release will be delayed too. so MY bet should be pretty correct ;D

by pwned @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 7:57am

cant wait

by b25 @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 9:08am

is it beta or public?

by nepazistamas @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 10:41am

lautan said it should be public. everyone can test it

by destructopoo @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 11:29am

nepazistamas actally sunday is in 3 days... sorry to burst your bubble

by nepazistamas @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 12:46pm

close to weekend could be thursday. and sunday is the very end of the weekend. also, theres a big chance that sunday release will be delayed too

by b25 @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 4:39pm

actually sunday is the begining of the week

by Lime @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 8:02pm

Well, if you think about it, Sunday is technically a part of the weekEND, so why it's marked as what appears to be the first day of the week on a calendar beats me.

Oh, and if any forum moderators see this, please remove the ban that Jala pointlessly put on my IP.

by l4stspartan @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 8:37pm

do you guys really have this little to do? your argueing over whats the begining of the week and whats the end... but for the sake of arguement lime has a very valid point, its unfortunate that people weren't this smart back so many years ago when calendars came out.

by b25 @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 8:58pm

well think of the week as a peice of string, there is a beginning and an end, but they are both ENDS of the string. sunday is the beginning end and saturday is the other. and if you believe in the bible then sunday is the first day. if sunday was the last day then why would saturday be considered a week end? monday is just the beginning of the WORK week.

by b25 @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 8:59pm

and spartan, do YOU really have this little to do that you post about our argument???

by Lime @ Apr Thu 1, 2010 @ 9:05pm

I prefer to call it a discussion, so long as we keep things civil, without flame wars.

by nepazistamas @ Apr Fri 2, 2010 @ 6:14am

b25, we dont need to go deep into bible or some ancient calendars. we live in 21st century, so face it- monday is the beginning of the week and saturday with sunday is the end of the week

by TehGuest @ Apr Fri 2, 2010 @ 8:43am

Not really. Like people have stated before, there's a difference between the week and the work week

by nepazistamas @ Apr Fri 2, 2010 @ 10:18am

*sigh* yes, work week is monday-friday period. but b25 was talking about bible, strings and other strange sh*t...

by lautan @ Apr Fri 2, 2010 @ 10:42am

The feel of the game has changed a bit. Its more fast paced and the interface is more organized.

I should have something to show by Sunday.

by b25 @ Apr Fri 2, 2010 @ 10:47am

dude i said IF you believe in the bible. and the string was just a metaphor. nepazi, you really arent arguing against my point, your just telling me im wrong, so if you want to discuss please give a valid point back.

by nepazistamas @ Apr Fri 2, 2010 @ 10:59am

b25, all i wanted to say is that you really went too deep into this thing. i dont know where you live and what type of week people use there, but as long as i recall pretty much whole world thinks that week is monday-sunday period. also, according to bible god used 6 days (monday-saturday) to create the world and sunday he rested, so i dont think that sunday is the beginning of week. tho i have to admit, if lautan releases beta on sunday, theguest still wins, bcouse his guess was still more accurate...

by b25 @ Apr Fri 2, 2010 @ 12:26pm

then why do calenders start with sunday? and the bible says rests on the seventh day which is actually saturday. where are you getting your facts from?

by nepazistamas @ Apr Fri 2, 2010 @ 12:42pm

idk, calendars may start with sunday in USA, cambodia or whereever you live. here calendars start with monday. and man, saturday is actually 6th day in the week. here you cant work on sundays because god rested on sunday and its a holy day

by TehGuest @ Apr Fri 2, 2010 @ 1:34pm

Ok, you guys are being a little bit stupid. Ffs, let me just quote wikipedia: Sunday (pronounced /ˈsʌndi/ or /ˈsʌndeɪ/ is the day of the week between Saturday and Monday. In most Christian traditions it is the Lord's Day, as opposed to the seventh-day Sabbath or Jewish Shabbat.[1] For many Christians it is the day set apart for worship of God, due to their belief in Christ's resurrection on a Sunday, according to the Gospels.

EU countries consider it the seventh or the last day of the week. In the UK Sunday is the seventh day in the civil week.[2] In the Jewish law, Sunday is the first day of the Hebrew calendar week.

Sunday is a day of rest in many countries of the world, part of 'the weekend'. In most Muslim countries, and Israel, Sunday is a working day.

by b25 @ Apr Fri 2, 2010 @ 7:30pm

you know what, whatever i dont really care what the first day of the week is. for all i care it could be wednesday. im done

by l4stspartan @ Apr Sat 3, 2010 @ 1:30am

b25, shut up your bugging people and making no sense at all with poor metaphors, and plus, in the battle between science and religion, science is winning until religion can be profen true,plus leave religion off of the internet all together 1. many people can be offended 2. you sound like a moron talking about something not profen in anyway.
Idc ban my account im not gonna be soft about anything i say: you dont sound very smart typing that OR your an idiot. same thing, alot shorter.

by nepazistamas @ Apr Sat 3, 2010 @ 4:36am

so b25 is a jew... also, doesnt look that he's a smart one

by Lime @ Apr Sat 3, 2010 @ 8:37am

Alright, alright, let's keep things civil, shall we? Everyone has their religious views, but they shouldn't be shared unless prompted by someone else. Back to my original point, though, it would be better if everyone kept the "shut up" and the "moron" comments to themselves. They tend to start flame wars rather quickly.

by b25 @ Apr Sat 3, 2010 @ 12:39pm

id like to point i havent used those words at all haha. and spartan, once you learn how to spell PROVEN I will listen to you. no reason to get angry guys, and besides, science hasnt been proven true either. so if youre going to argue that way, neither science nor religion is true.

and no i am not a jew.

by nepazistamas @ Apr Sat 3, 2010 @ 1:00pm

science hasnt been proven?! man, you must be living in 13th century... and if you arent jew you according to theguest you still live by jewish calendar

by ageust @ Apr Sat 3, 2010 @ 3:24pm

"science hasn't been proven"

have you ever looked through a microscope? i would say being able to see and manipulate things in that way proves science.

by b25 @ Apr Sat 3, 2010 @ 3:57pm

well ya of course i believe in that stuff. what im talking about is the big bang theory or evolution, how we were made, what powers an atom, stuff like that.

my calender here says sunday is the first day and thats what i believe.

seriously though you guys are getting WAY to heated over my opinion haha

by BUBEAR @ Apr Sat 3, 2010 @ 4:14pm

XD XD XD XD. AND YES I KNOW I AM USING CAPS AGAIN BUT... OMG..... ITS ALMOST HERE

by l4stspartan @ Apr Sat 3, 2010 @ 10:40pm

lmao... science hasnt been proven, no ofcourse it hasnt... pfft what a tard comment.

by TehGuest @ Apr Sat 3, 2010 @ 10:50pm

Spartan... please... just shut your mouth before I have to do it for you

Fucking twelve year olds...

by destructopoo @ Apr Sun 4, 2010 @ 1:31am

science? evolutions? logic? what is this the bible doesnt tell me these things!

but really, i can't wait till the game.

p.s. we don't need religion anymore...religions,(and this is a fact) particularly christianity, are only popular because they help control the population and because they "explain" everything(by saying "because god made it that way")

by BUBEAR @ Apr Sun 4, 2010 @ 9:28am

omg omg omg.... were is it. i need it nnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww

by destructopoo @ Apr Sun 4, 2010 @ 11:33am

happy zombie jesus day! today idiots worldwide celebrate the fact that like most jewish criminals, a heretic got nailed to a T(that's right, they really didn't have crosses). did you know the soldier who stabbed jesus in the ribs for shits and giggles IS A SAINT?

by nat @ Apr Sun 4, 2010 @ 12:18pm

what is the point of spreading this hate? i can't understand why anyone would talk bad about religion. if everyone were a good christian (or other peaceful religion)there would be peace on earth. there would be no rape, no violence, no hate. but i guess you would rather have that then a world of "idiots right"? and if you were actually open to the idea of God and Christianity then you may be surprised at what may happen in your life. i was just like you until i gave it a chance. so please think twice before spreading your religious hate around. it would be greatly appreciated.

by b25 @ Apr Sun 4, 2010 @ 2:18pm

exactly, christianity has never done anything to you guys, so there is no need to insult us. you may have your own views and i respect that, but please dont insult mine

by destructopoo @ Apr Sun 4, 2010 @ 8:00pm

Part of my family is from Lebanon. A little thing called the crusades killed thousands of people near my ancestor's lands for no reason. Also, the pope authorised the "children's crusade" which involved thousands of french teens marching to italy where they were sold into slavery. the catholic church is against the chinese child limit, which is dumb because if they don't restrict it at all, the population will grow exponentially. this is bad because people start to die when there is no food. If you think that can be solved, it can't. I was open. I then realized that if i accepted the fact that an omnipotent being didn't make everything for me I would be happier. Religion is the opiate of the people.

by destructopoo @ Apr Sun 4, 2010 @ 8:03pm

not to mention the thirty years war, witch trials, dark ages, almost stoppage of scientific development, inquisition, burning of books, and insane persecution all as a result of religion. Oh, and the whole war on terror thing? That war has roots all the way back to the crusades. I can go on and on.

by l4stspartan @ Apr Sun 4, 2010 @ 10:01pm

teh... why call me 12 when its 12 year olds that use comments like that,
b25, i am open to ALL religions but as before, leave them off the site, look now flame over religion not related to our topic(some are but you get what i mean)
destructopoo, you are completely right. i will safely say that idk maybe 75% of wars happened over religion amongst other things, why? because someone tried to go on about all these religious "facts", someone got offended, and the wars began. just like on this site, its almost symbolistic if you think about it...

by b25 @ Apr Sun 4, 2010 @ 11:07pm

hey man all i said was IF you believe in the bible and everyone went wack hahahah

by l4stspartan @ Apr Sun 4, 2010 @ 11:09pm

ok fair enough... truce?

by b25 @ Apr Sun 4, 2010 @ 11:26pm

absolutely

by l4stspartan @ Apr Mon 5, 2010 @ 12:31am

good... huh, gonna be funny seeing those guys continue on even though its over now.

by nat @ Apr Mon 5, 2010 @ 2:59pm

yea it is going to continue, you can laugh all you want, i don't mind at all.

destructo... you ARE correct that religion has caused almost all of the conflict in the history of the world. and yes many PEOPLE have screwed things up and twisted religion for their own selfish benefit. But god is not evil. God isn't about the the world. it's about what He can do for one person to change their life. and how that person can show others through their own good works how god has influenced them thus helping others find God. hundreds or thousands of years ago people were very easily manipulated. if you ever read the bible you would know that one day the people of Jerusalem worshiped Jesus and then they crucified him. it's because education wasn't a common thing and people believed what they were told (aside from the fact that Jesus had to be crucified and all that) but take the time to go to almost any christian church today and you will most likely find people who would take the shirt off their backs for you, not kill you for not being a christian. atheism on the other hand doesn't offer that sort of help. yes there may be friendly and helpful atheists out there but there are far more selfish atheists then there are selfish Christians. and from what i recall just about every murderer and rapist is an atheist. and I'm not saying every christian is perfect, we are all sinners in some way or another, even myself. but i am happy to tell you that i am a sinner, and i am also a christian. God literally took me from a place where i would most likely wind up either in prison or a crack house and put me with a girl who would take care of me and lead me away from those things. it is because i simply believed and gave god a chance to work with me. how about this, try to pray tonight. just try it. be like "god if your out there please show me so i can really know. amen". if absolutely NOTHING happens in your life then you can say all you want. i know what i believe in is real and not just an "opiate". you may have prayed before and nothing happened but try it one more time. because i know what god did for me and if he can do it for me he can do it for you too.

by nat @ Apr Mon 5, 2010 @ 2:59pm

wow i didn't realize it was that long lmao

by TehGuest @ Apr Mon 5, 2010 @ 3:17pm

For the record NO, science is not "proven." You can go back as far as you want, but it all ends in THEORYS. Therefore My personal belief is that science actually supports the existance of god. Hell, someone had to start the big bang/string theory/etc etc...

As for you religion bashers, religion is NOT the problem. Extremism is the problem

Stop trying to act as if all religions preach the death and destruction you ignorant pricks

by l4stspartan @ Apr Mon 5, 2010 @ 4:31pm

teh, stop... we all know "theorys" arent proven, there theorys, but science is proven because it all has a logical background to it and all things link together with the scientificly proven methods provided by thousands of years of research, if you have a cold and you take this medication it helps you, its proven to work because it does. 99% of the time help you, so yeah, i think science is proven.

by TehGuest @ Apr Mon 5, 2010 @ 4:54pm

You're a fucking dumbass

Do you know how to read? I just explained science is not "proven" because you can never find the solution to all the questions as you go deeper and deeper into the universe's questions. And if you can't COMPLETELY prove something down to the bottom layer of its hierachy it isn't fact
"Duuuuur science is profen becuz medicine wurkz"
Please, go die... I'm talking about things bigger than taking an aspirin

by l4stspartan @ Apr Tue 6, 2010 @ 8:55pm

getting off tracks with the insults there lil boy, yes what we know is proven to be true because it works, if something works its true/correct/right,etc.
so just stop being a little baby trying to win an unwinable arguement.

by l4stspartan @ Apr Tue 6, 2010 @ 9:01pm

responding with more insults will only prove you lost because you clearly have nothing to run with besides a half argueable piece of spam you started how ever many posts ago, you dont have anything else to say reasonably smart to compare with anything. you wanna try flamming you can go ahead and show everyone how much of a little child you are, but im not gonna go there, no, im having a discusion with atleast semi-intelligent people over science vs religion, not, however, how many cusses you can put in a single post.

by b25 @ Apr Tue 6, 2010 @ 10:21pm

i thought you were gonna stop spartan?? hahaha

by l4stspartan @ Apr Tue 6, 2010 @ 11:36pm

i would have but teh is being a lil on the annoying side.

by b25 @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 8:34am

well although i dont agree with calling you a "fucking dumbass", i do agree with his point.

by destructopoo @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 12:46pm

i love lamp

by TehGuest @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 3:42pm

Wow, you're so mature [sarcasm]! To bad you can't even comprehend my arguement...
Your "facts" are all abstract. You could wake up tomorrow and gravity could be reversed (albeit its very unlikely that that will happen).

Let me go ahead and break this down for you one more time: SCIENCE CAN BE BOILED DOWN TO FUCKING THEORYS. There is no way to prove them. Science can't completely explain everything in the universe yet you blindly believe it has the all answers. Ergo, you are retarded

If Science=theories and theories=unproven therefore SCIENCE=UNPROVEN

I'm not saying you can't have faith that gravity will always hold you down and the earth will always go around the sun (as I said before, the probability that these will remain the same is quite high), I'm just saying all of science is not fucking "proven", so stop trying to be a smartass because you got a fucking "B" in 6th grade biology or something

by BostonFan @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 5:27pm

Ok guys, just stop this stupid thing already. You've went from wanting the demo to come out, to arguing over religion, and now to science. There is no point to this argument and the best way to stop someone else from annoying you is to just ignore them. It will give them no point to continue because they are basically talking to a wall.

by l4stspartan @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 5:32pm

fair enough, teh wont come out of his shell and see whats around him, to bad... no more commenting.

by destructopoo @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 6:41pm

TehGuest...you get all of your "facts" about everything from a book. I get my facts from a book that has been PROVEN countless times. Many core aspects of science are not theories. The laws of gravity, motion, thermodynamics, and other basic principles are laws, not theories. Gravity wont turn off.

by destructopoo @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 7:11pm

Stop trying to be a smartass because you got a C in 6th grade religion.

by l4stspartan @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 7:25pm

destructo you on my team or his here with that last comment lol.

by TehGuest @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 8:03pm

I wasn't talking about religion, I was talking about string theory. And yes there is a chance that gravity could "turn off", the laws are based only on what we know about it, which is not much actually

by destructopoo @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 9:01pm

Oh lol i'm on your team. TehGuest is so wrapped in the bible he can't see fact. Gravity can't turn off. It's been trillions of years since either of the four fources changed at all. By the way, a theory is scientifically proven many, many times. The bible isn't a theory. It isn't even a hypothesis. Hell, it isn't even a full thought. It's a set of metaphors and fake examples. Deal with it.

by l4stspartan @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 9:35pm

well some things in the bible are true, or atleast a good morale reference but yeah you pretty well sum it up.

by destructopoo @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 9:47pm

I know. I don't know if i said it before but i do think Jesus was real. I think he's a philosopher who was right. The same way Karl Marx was right. People take things the wrong way people start to think Jesus' little book is literally the word of God(because we're so special that the omnipotent ghost talks to us in the form of writing)

by TehGuest @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 9:47pm

Dude, reread my fucking comments. The only time I even remotely mentioned religion was way back when I explained my own beleifs, not even mentioning the bible. So please, stop jumping to assumtions

How can you prove gravity can't turn off? Did we figure how gravity even works? No? Really, all we have is the general theory of relativity? Well thats a bummer.
That means all you can prove is that it hasn't turned off as of yet, not that it never will. Too bad, there goes your arguement...

by TehGuest @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 9:52pm

Also, wooooow. That comment about the Jesus really shows how much you know about christianity. I don't claim to know much about christianity, but I do know that they believe its the word of god in the sense that the people who wrote it were divinely inspired. And if they believe that he really rose from the dead, then it's no longer a philosophy because he basically just proved it right there

by destructopoo @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 10:29pm

People can't rise from the dead. After a few minutes, brain tissue decays to the point where neurons no longer function. After a few hours, major organs would be degraded such that they are no longer functioning tissue. After three days, The body would not be a body. It would be a decaying mess. And it is a philosophy. Millions believe that Mohammad is THE prophet. There are much more muslims that christians. That is a fact. Just because people believe it doesn't make it true. You always claim that science can't be proven. Show me one piece of evidence showing that God is real.(I believe in a "God" for all intents and purposes.) By the way, since the universe was created, who created it? Why can your God be eternal but the universe cannot? Carl Sagan said "Everything exists in the universe, therefore nothing can exist outside of it." That man is smarter than you can ever hope to be. If he thinks that, he's probably more correct than you are. I love the fact that you quoted Wikipedia.

By the way, the theory of relativity is about relativity, not about gravity. We know how gravity works. We know how space-time is warped in relation to the size, mass, and density of an object. Well I don't know it, but people smarter than you and I do. TehGuest, if you wan't to get into the "you can't prove it" argument, don't say anything until you find a way to prove that I exist. Prove also that you are not in a computer program. Prove that your existence isn't like the Matrix.

by destructopoo @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 10:32pm

People can't rise from the dead. After a few minutes, brain tissue decays to the point where neurons no longer function. After a few hours, major organs would be degraded such that they are no longer functioning tissue. After three days, The body would not be a body. It would be a decaying mess. And it is a philosophy. Millions believe that Mohammad is THE prophet. There are much more muslims that christians. That is a fact. Just because people believe it doesn't make it true. You always claim that science can't be proven. Show me one piece of evidence showing that God is real.(I believe in a "God" for all intents and purposes.) By the way, since the universe was created, who created it? Why can your God be eternal but the universe cannot? Carl Sagan said "Everything exists in the universe, therefore nothing can exist outside of it." That man is smarter than you can ever hope to be. If he thinks that, he's probably more correct than you are. I love the fact that you quoted Wikipedia.

By the way, the theory of relativity is about relativity, not about gravity. We know how gravity works. We know how space-time is warped in relation to the size, mass, and density of an object. Well I don't know it, but people smarter than you and I do. TehGuest, if you wan't to get into the "you can't prove it" argument, don't say anything until you find a way to prove that I exist. Prove also that you are not in a computer program. Prove that your existence isn't like the Matrix.

by destructopoo @ Apr Wed 7, 2010 @ 11:37pm

'scuse the doubles

by l4stspartan @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 12:49am

teh you sound like a whack job saying nothing exists, im not even really talking bout the religion anymore im telling you that science is explained in a way that is our truth, everyones truth, making it the only truth, there are no two right ways, theres one right way and others surround it trying to say their right. you going on about gravity and all that is messed up, the you cant prove it game wont do anything but show your IQ being as well off as a neanderthals. if science isnt proven then nothing is, end of the story.

by destructopoo @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 2:18am

it's ok let him live thinking that he's a puppet. if that's all that can make him happy so be it

by TehGuest @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 8:12am

I'm pretty sure rising from the dead is what makes it a miracle and a religion, because its doing the impossible dirka dirka. Not to mention that there were literally hundreds of events involving the "risen" jesus, and hundreds more people saw him "ascend" into heaven, so it was either a fact or one hell of an elaborate hoax. No there are not more muslims than christians (1.3 bil vs 2 bil, check your facts please). And I'm not even going to try and "prove" god exists as it is impossible to prove either way that he does or does not exist, which is why having faith in religion is your own personal belief and I can't change that

And please check your facts, the GENERAL theory of relativity is indeed gravitation

As for existing, theres no way to prove it but: "I think, therefore I am"

And apparently I'm not the only whackjob. Agrippa's Trilemma purports that it is impossible to prove any certain truth even in fields such as logic and mathematics. According to this argument, the proof of any theory rests either on circular reasoning, infinite regress, or unproven axioms.

by b25 @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 10:52am

if you want someone to prove God exists, i think that you must first prove that scientific proof is the only way to prove something, if it is then it is impossible to prove he exists, because that would limiting God to a microscope. and you guys need to understand, that for the most part, religion and science coincide with each other. it is theories like evolution, or the big bang theory that Christians are against. those of which have not been proven, and that is why science for me, has not been proven, because it cant prove how or why the human race exists. and until they can prove those, God will make more sense then any other answer you can come up with.

by destructopoo @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 2:34pm

yeah... there's a few accounts of the risen jesus. In a book that might be anywhere from two thousand to a few hundred years old. By the way, christianity is anything from the thousands of heresies to catholicism. The number of christians and muslims is very close. That quote by Descartes didn't answer anything. You can't prove i exist. Just the same way that you can't prove God exists. Because he doesn't. Your "faith" is a psychological dependence of an answer. You can't look at the stars and think that they are more in number than you can comprehend and they all came from nature. You think that everything happened because God said so. This is because you lack the capacity to understand science.

by l4stspartan @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 5:22pm

ok well destructo is keeping my place warm for me ill join in later maybe with something else to say, and please keep this legit... no wikipedia.

by destructopoo @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 5:37pm

hahaha yeah. because teh gets his understanding of the universe from the bible and wikipedia. I don't know if I tackled this but of course God makes more "sense". It's easy to say that some higher power makes stuff happen instead of figuring it out.

by b25 @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 7:04pm

ok then poo, tell me how the universe started? what is our purpose here? how were we created? what fuels an atom? until you can come up with an answer that says God isnt responsible for those, they are proof enough that He exists.

by ageust @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 7:39pm

i'll just ask this: do you really think, that if there is indeed a god, that he is small enough to fit inside you're head?

by b25 @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 7:42pm

absolutely not, not all of him

by destructopoo @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 11:02pm

The universe started when a dense clump of matter exploded. This matter was formed because two branes collided. Small fractions of a second later, gravity, elecromagnetism, and both radioactive forces were produced. Because of the laws of physics, the universe ended up like it is today.

Thanks for asking the "what is our purpose" question. I'll explain. It started when lightning hit clay. This clay had the right arrangement of atoms. These atoms fused. This cluster of atoms and "clay" survived longer together than anything else. One of these clumps began to replicate. If you want to know how, read a book that isnt the bible. Then, the first cell was created. This cell survived better than whatever else was on earth. Through evolution(again, read a book) cells evolved, organisms thrived, life flourished. billions of years later, here you are. Now, why did i type that? We don't have a purpose really. We don't have to survive. The universe doesn't need us. There are 8 planets near us. Only we have intelligent life(as far as we know). So we don't have a real purpose. Our purpose as a species is to mate. Other than that, we have no purpose. Deal with it.

As to what fuels an atom, you have to understand the strong nuclear force.
The reason that atoms are held together
is that nature seeks balance. A proton binds with a neutron to form hydrogen because this is perfect balance. Salt forms because Na+ and Cl- need eachother to be balanced. There is no fuel. If you don't understand this, read a book. Specifically parallel worlds.

by l4stspartan @ Apr Thu 8, 2010 @ 11:54pm

on top of that... that would be the reason for a god that creates all. people, as a spieces, are ignorant, lazy, unwilling to change their roots. so instead of people trying to learn all this they just say "god made it"... it's the lazy person response to this. and life will continue like this forever because as i said. ignorant, lazy, unwilling to change.

by General @ Apr Fri 9, 2010 @ 9:50am

First topics like religion shouldn't be discuss at least not here. This is about the demo right?

To get back on topic to me the guns jammed way to often. It seem like everytime you shot your gun gets jammed.

by destructopoo @ Apr Fri 9, 2010 @ 11:32am

that's apparently because god jammed your gun hahahaha

by b25 @ Apr Fri 9, 2010 @ 2:41pm

hey, at least we arent making fun of your THEORIES. thats great that you guys have books, Christians have plenty of books besides the bible as well. many religious events are historical, science proves that they really happened. but guess what, all of your creation of the universe ideas still remain theories, none of it is fact, to me, God has proven Himself more then science has.

by General @ Apr Fri 9, 2010 @ 4:42pm

Please just drop it ._.
......
And I guess your right Destructopoo XD.

by l4stspartan @ Apr Fri 9, 2010 @ 5:19pm

no you dont make fun of our THEORIES, wait, you just did for the 12 time or so by doing that. now just stop you guys arent running with anything here your saying nothing senseful nor meaningful.

by destructopoo @ Apr Fri 9, 2010 @ 5:53pm

once again b25, all of your historical texts were hand picked and chosen by popes. All of the records from history are what some old men wanted you to see. You don't even know what a theory is do you... A theory is explained with facts. Actual observations. Not just looking at the sun and assuming a man(yes according to the bible the omnipotent being has a gender) put it there for shits and giggles. b25 prove that god is real. So you're telling me that cells don't exist?

by destructopoo @ Apr Fri 9, 2010 @ 5:54pm

once again b25, all of your historical texts were hand picked and chosen by popes. All of the records from history are what some old men wanted you to see. You don't even know what a theory is do you... A theory is explained with facts. Actual observations. Not just looking at the sun and assuming a man(yes according to the bible the omnipotent being has a gender) put it there for shits and giggles. b25 prove that god is real. So you're telling me that cells don't exist?

by b25 @ Apr Fri 9, 2010 @ 6:25pm

ok before i prove god exists, you gotta prove that scientific proof is the only way to prove something. because if it is, then it is impossible, you cant pinpoint God with microscopes. and spartan, how is calling them theories making fun of them, thats what they are arent they? and yes i know theories are based on facts, but the theories themselves are not proven facts.

as for historical records, take the parting of the red sea for example, scientific evidence is continuing to prove that it actually happened, they have found sand bars where they would have crossed, chariot wheels at the bottom, just look it up, theyre finding plenty of evidence that it was a real occurrence, and yes it is in the bible. and you cant call God a man, yes we assume He is male, although it doesnt clarify. but He is certainly not a man, He is definitely a much higher being then one of us.

by destructopoo @ Apr Fri 9, 2010 @ 8:08pm

HAHAHAHAHA. Oh god i thought you were dumb enough but now that you take the bible literally you're retarted! The red sea did not part. You're so stupid. Believe it or not some parts on earth were very different thousands of years ago. For example, many parts of the israeli desert weren't deserts at all. Anyway, the red sea would've been low enough to dry off when there was a drought or something. And even if you chose to deny that, finding old wooden wheels at the bottom of a sea isn't proof that it dried. The red sea in the bible is not the read sea. It is called the sea of reeds, which is close to the red sea. It is very shallow and does dry from time to time. Scientific proof is the only way to prove something. And don't be so dumb and ask me to prove science. Ask me to prove something more specific. You don't have one piece of evidence supporting your fucking retarted ass genocide causing god. You know in the bible Elijah MURDERED hundreds of men? You know that in the bible god told his people to go around and kill anyone who didnt believe in god? have fun believing that. You're so stupid. I found some candy wrappers on the floor in my room. Does that mean that god loves starburst and left some on my floor? you're so fucking stupid

by b25 @ Apr Fri 9, 2010 @ 9:39pm

ok man, you have some anger issues, im just gonna stop talking now, i can see you are very ignorant and there is no reasoning with you, farewell my friend. hopefully we can actually have a conversation later.

with all due respect

b25

by TehGuest @ Apr Sat 10, 2010 @ 12:14am

Yeah seriously dude you need to relax, what did christianity ever do to you?

I actually am able to comprehend science (at least better than some people I know) and if anything it only strengthens my belief in some supernatural/metaphysical power. I see you support the big bang theory (which I do also support to an extent)and I quote
"The universe started when a dense clump of matter exploded"

Wait, where did that matter come from? Gee, I'm sure there's some logical event that put it there, couldn't have been god. But then wait, what caused that event to happen , there MUST be an answer besides god. But then how did that etc etc... (do you see where I'm going here or do I have to fucking spell it out for you...)

Whoops there goes your arguement again, sorry

by l4stspartan @ Apr Sat 10, 2010 @ 12:56am

... science is horrible prove that god exists, it tries to prove he doesnt exist. and ok, suppose god was there when it all happened, but think about this, who was there to make your god? everything comes from somewhere, if you dont belive that your a delusional idiot.

by destructopoo @ Apr Sat 10, 2010 @ 9:19am

they call me ignorant because they don't understand. I'll go into my views right now. What created the dense matter? Branes colliding. What created those branes? The way I see it, something has to exist, right? I mean, It makes no sense that there is NOTHING. It makes no sense that there is no existence. I don't mean an empty universe. I mean no universe. Nothing. So there. I believe that the universe exists because something has to exist.

Where did god come from? You'll say that god is infinite. OK. Why can't anything else be infinite? My argument still stands. Just because we don't know the answers doesn't mean they can't be there. TehGuest, every counter to my logic that you have is going back to where did it come from. Let's say god made it. Where did he come from?
And i quote,
"Whoops there goes your arguement again, sorry"

Oh b25. How is it ignorance? I research and I read books and I look around at everything I can when I have a question. You go on wikipedia or shrug and assume god did it. That is ignorance.

TehGuest, What did christianity ever do to me? First of all, it slowed my scientific development. Catholic schools won't teach you about evolution until much later in life. Imagine a society where kids actually learn everything instead of ignorantly being told god made it that way? This is indirect and speculative but if the dark ages didn't happen, we could be exploring the galaxy right now.

by AtomDragon @ Apr Sat 10, 2010 @ 10:47am

"science is winning until religion can be profen true"
sorry to bring this up but Faith, IE religion, is the act of believing without proof. Science is the denial of Faith. You cannot PROVE religion is correct because then you would end up like the modern-day Chruch Of Scientology bullshit.

Seriously though, there are 2 really big things you should keep off the internet - religion and politics. So please, all of you shut up about the first and for God or Allah or whichever bloody sentient being you believe in's sake dont start on the second. I am not in the mood, and I haven't swung my banhammer for a while. Oh, and don't say that isn't fair because you have freedom of speech or any similar crap, because last time I checked this site is Lautann's, so its a bit like he's God. And so God made his only little preachers and his angels, and slowly believers came. Then some of those believers started to argue, and one little angel called "AtomDragon" was given the title of Moderator to shut up the little arguers. Don't say i haven't warned you.

by TehGuest @ Apr Sat 10, 2010 @ 10:54am

I too went to catholic school and they didn't just tell me that "god made it", they intermingled science and religion and proved to me that they could indeed co exist. And when I got to highschool, about 90% of the catholic students were in the top of my class- proving that they were more academically advanced than public school students

As for the whole "where did god come from", that arguement doesn't even make sense. The very nature of a superbeing that has the power to create something out of nothing would make it impossible for a human mind to comprehend. God would kind of serve as a barrier for research, no matter how advanced we get our brains won't ever physically be able to fully understand god

by destructopoo @ Apr Sat 10, 2010 @ 11:43am

so you just said that you're not smart enough to understand it. ok. i'm done with this its hard to argue with a retarded wall

by l4stspartan @ Apr Sat 10, 2010 @ 2:27pm

lol, and atomdragon... that was just wrong you are not a super being or angel or whatever you think you are calling yourself, your just some guy who has put 200 posts on a site... if that makes you so great then thats fucked right up. and yes teh, i belive they can co-exist but i wasnt talking about the religious bit after about 20 posts ago or something like that, i was now argueing that-nvm its hopeless i say something then you say something, that goes on for 40 posts then "superman" here atom has to announce superiority. fuck it.

by AtomDragon @ Apr Sun 11, 2010 @ 2:02pm

I didnt "announce superiority" as you so nicely put it (i must say, that was very well phrased for an inferior of the species.Joke) I simply was A) putting a play on words (the Angel reference was directed to my Beta rights as most Mods that were promoted since the beta also had beta rights, hence them being "Angels" - superior in power to others, the powers bestowed by "God") and B) trying to get you guys to understand how fucked up this argument. Why don't you go argue over the colours of the walls in your next door neighbour's house? "Yeah, well myneighbour's walls are turqouise""Well my neighbour's are burgundy" yeah well mine are cream with stains from a huge mug of STFU.

And actually its around 12000 posts, give or take a few thousand. And that has nothing to do with it. I didnt get Mod rights for post count. I actually got it because i was recommended, that and because we needed a European Mod. Go figure.

As for Destructopoo's comment; That is frankly ridiculous, because Tehguest's post actually made more sense than he let on (a bit like saying "i don't know what to believe" which holds more wisdom than the speaker knows.) to which you retorted with a pointless and unfunny comment (except for people like l4stspartan who laugh because it makes them feel like they belong. No offense spartan, you DO belong, but thats just what it seems like) because you have nothing else to add to the argument.

Now enough. Leave argueing about God to church. Atleast it'll be funny to see the Vicar's face.

Now PLEASE can we stop this? You're ruining my holiday here! Well, some of you are... MEH

by l4stspartan @ Apr Sun 11, 2010 @ 2:14pm

...

by BostonFan @ Apr Sun 11, 2010 @ 2:59pm

Wow, you guys are still fighting huh? AtomDragon, saying something will not make the argument shorter, it will just make them say something else about what you said, which will make the argument longer. If you want them to stop, just say nothing and let them keep arguing until someone gives up, or they switch to a different topic. Just give up...seriously...

by THEJOKER @ Apr Sun 11, 2010 @ 3:26pm

Ya guys just stop.

by destructopoo @ Apr Sun 11, 2010 @ 10:33pm

ok so this is really going to be my last post on this one but atom you're not some enlightened being you're just like the rest of us. How did your horse get so tall by the way?

by AtomDragon @ Apr Mon 12, 2010 @ 1:46pm

Sheesh, you people really are incapable of comprehending a little something callled a metaphor. You might wanna look it up.

And actually, let's cut the shit, no maybe I'm not, in reality, any better than you. I might be smarter than you, i might not. I might be stronger than you, i might not. But where it counts, on this site, yes, i AM "enlightened", as you put it. Let's not kid ourselves here, the fact my name is in a differant shade of green to yours isn't pure coincidence. I'm a moderator, and i do have more powers than you do.

Okay then, so don't think of it as angels, god and whatnot, think of it as a military heirarchy. Lautan's Major, The mods are Sergeants, Beta testers are Corporals, Normal people here are Privates. Okay, so maybe the Private can shoot better than the Sergeant, but that doesn't mean the Sergeant doesn't still have the power to order the Private around. I'm not acting high and mighty here - I'm doing my job.

I've said it a million times, so another time makes no differance - You don't have to like me, you just have to respect me, if as a human being if not as a moderator. And i expect you to respect everyone else here, and for that reason, unless you have something better to talk about, don't let your fingers near your keyboard. Hell, so long as you argue about something more relevant and less controversial, do it, but this is borderline anti-racial - destructopoo, you actually literally said that it's Catholics' fault that the world doesn't have fucking hover cars - and it has no place here.

I swear, another comment that isn't about THIS ONE and still on the subject of God and whatnot, it'll be deleted and I'll warn you. Twice - banned.

Enough is enough.

by AtomDragon @ Apr Mon 12, 2010 @ 2:26pm

In fact, you know what, I think i owe you an apologoy. Maybe i went about this the wrong way. Maybe I DID act a little egotistical (like i'mmore important, if you don't know) but the point still stands. Can you not just stop? Please?

by destructopoo @ Apr Mon 12, 2010 @ 3:42pm

yes sir sergeant atomdragon sir :D

by AtomDragon @ Apr Mon 12, 2010 @ 4:12pm

sounds good, no? XD

by b25 @ Apr Mon 12, 2010 @ 9:09pm

ahahaha the irony of the link below me right now. "Jesus Loves You, this prayer will change your life" hahahahaha, sorry guys, i just had to post that

by b25 @ Apr Mon 12, 2010 @ 9:09pm

ahahaha the irony of the link below me right now. "Jesus Loves You, this prayer will change your life" hahahahaha, sorry guys, i just had to post that

by nat @ Apr Tue 13, 2010 @ 6:23pm

holy crap i didn't realize this would get so out of control.

by Lime @ Apr Wed 14, 2010 @ 7:36pm

It's better if people would just shut up once in a while, instead of acting superior to everyone else and calling each other retarded.

by shaunthegrunt @ Sep Thu 2, 2010 @ 1:59pm

kewl